The Risks Digest

The RISKS Digest

Forum on Risks to the Public in Computers and Related Systems

ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy, Peter G. Neumann, moderator

Volume 11 Issue 19

Friday 1 March 1991


o About Risks in Believing AI Gurus
Klaus Brunnstein
o Re: Jim Horning's note on software warranties
Alan Wexelblat
o But the computer person said it was OK!
Steve Bellovin
o Automatic Patching
Larry Nathanson
o Risk from workstations with built-in microphones
Steve Greenwald
o Specs for special equipment
Jim Purtilo
o Re: worse-is-better for the 1990s
Tim Chambers
Mark McWiggins
Flint Pellett
Dan Franklin
o Info on RISKS (comp.risks)

About Risks in Believing AI Gurus (M.Minsky)

Klaus Brunnstein <>
1 Mar 91 17:45 +0100
On February 19-20, 1991, Borland collected, on the occasion of its 10th
anniversary, a rare collection of gurus, experts, engineers, artists in Munich
(Title: European Software Festival). On the program:

   - Niklaus Wirth on his Oberon language concept (lecture, workshop)
   - Bjarne Stoustrup (AT&T) with 2 lectures on C++/Object Oriented Programming
   - Marvin Minsky: Lecture on Personal Software and Programs Who Know You
                    (but he really gave a survey of AI history)
                    plus Lecture on Artificial Animals
   - Philippe Kahn: Back to the Future
   - Joseph Weizenbaum against overestimation in research
   - Izumi Aizu: Hypernetwork Society

Some more could not come (Alan Kay should not use plane), others really did not
come (Cyberspace guru Jaron Lanier was only virtually present in a video)

One of the most stimulating (and generally uncomparable) events was a concert
of Tod Machover (composer, director MIT Media Lab) who demonstrated his
"conductor-aiding handglove" in a new composition, after having demonstrated
his concept of "hyperinstruments" with a piece from his opera "Valis".

Also some native German speakers:
   - Computer Art professor Herbert W. Franke on Experimental Esthetics
   - Thomas von Randow on Cryptosystems ("If Mary Stewart had applied crypto-
   - my own contribution was on Risky Paradigms in Informatics' Box of Pandora
        (starting from J.v.Neumann's assumption, that his EDVAC be equivalent
         to the human brain, with peripheral devices analog to "organs", I
         analysed risks in misconceptions, errors in realisations,
         misunderstanding on the users side, and malicious misuse, with
         examples well known to Risk Forum readers).

For about 2,000 participants in gigantic Gasteig Philharmonic site, this must
have been a stimulating experience, but at least some of them will have
corrected (hopefully) their world model on trustable gurus when Marvin Minsky,
in a `press conference' was asked whether he would like to connect his nerves
and brain to a `desktop brain' machine. Following his lecture where he argued
that the human brain consists of about 40 neural machine each of which may have
a specific frame architecture (he represented theories of Darwin, Freud, Piaget
as specific search trees, and he discussed several types of frames representing
brain activities), he then exclaimed: Imagine that you install 400 neural
machines which will give 10 times the power of a brain! While Joseph Weizenbaum
sat on the other side very quietly, Marvin became even more explicit when he
discussed the possible role of philosophers (at most, those of the last 200
years seemed relevant to him) and religion (which he suggested to forbid as
religion does not contribute to problem-solving).

No surprise that philosophers such as Socrates are not discussed in AI circles:
following the relativity of knowledge (Oida ouden eidos! =I know that I do not
know!), a knowledge base is a self-contradiction! (I now understand why MIT
students were forbidden philosophy in Marvin's time as dean, as Joe Weizenbaum

>From a European point of view, the rational aspects, Human Information
Processing and its Informatics equivalent "Artificial Intelligence" were so
overemphasized that it became very difficult to believe that Marvin Minsky
really believed what he said. With his special inspiration, Joseph Weizenbaum
brought this to the real point when (summing up his experiences in discussions
at MIT) he mentioned a dream: "I dreamt that Marvin leaves at his end - which
is hopefully very far in the future a letter - saying: I never meant what I

Personally, I would feel much more comfortable if I knew that Marvin Minsky is
more conscious of the impact of his words; but I think that he just means what
he (and many others) says: that there is only a difference in material (dry
Silicium realisation of "intelligence" versus the evoluted wet Carbon-based
brain), and that it is only lack of contemporary knowledge why today's
machines' intelligence seems inferior to human one. And that the vanishing
difference between machine and brain will evolute in intelligence amplifiers
where human nervous system may be connected to a desktop machine. In my
analysis, it is this kind of misconceptions that are an esssential reason for
contemporary computer accidents - misconceptions of scientists (uncritically
following paradigms and unverified assumptions), top- and
medium-level-misconceptions, misimplementations, misunderstandings on the
users' side, conscious use of side effects and other misuse...

Klaus Brunnstein, University of Hamburg (March 1, 1991: 5 p.m. GMT)

PS: apologies to those who regard such philosophical discussions as mere
    speculations; I honestly do not wish to distract anybody from analysing
    real accidents on a realistic (that is, non-philosophical) basis.

Re: Jim Horning's note on software warranties (RISKS DIGEST 11.16)

Fri, 1 Mar 91 13:21:57 est
While I don't want to turn this into a flamefest, I would
like to disagree with something I think Horning is implying.  He says:

> Software doesn't wear out, and hence doesn't need "maintenance" to cope
> with physical wear.  Any defects were present at the outset.

This is true only in the most trivial sense.  "Defects" can be one of two
things.  Either:
    - a defect is a difference between the actual operation of the
program and some formal specification of its intended behavior; or
    - a defect is a difference between the actual operation of the
program and some expectation on the part of the users/designers/clients.

Now, in the first sense it's true that software doesn't come to have more
defects over time (though more may be discovered, obviously).  However, it's
important to remember that the latter definition is the one more commonly
used, and under that definition, programs will indeed "wear out."

That is, I assert we cannot think of a program only as having a static set of
defects which prevent it from meeting its intended purpose.  Rather, there is a
dynamic gulf between the expectations of the users and the operation of the

This is why software engineers are taught "the specification is *never*
frozen."  This is why complex systems which take years to be delivered so often
fail.  It's not that they don't do what they were originally intended to do --
it's that they can't cope with all the additional things they were asked to do
during development (q.v. any number of military systems, command & control
systems of all sorts).

As an aside, I don't like the analogy between software and books because books
are primarily inert conveyers of information; people expect programs to *do*
things.  It's one thing to complain that your on-line encyclopedia is "wrong"
and another thing entirely to complain that your aircraft-landing system is

--Alan Wexelblat, Bull Worldwide Information Systems    phone: (508)294-7485

Faxing a horse

Fri, 1 Mar 1991 00:40 PST
Today I attended an "Adobe Technical Conference."  Contrary to its
name, this was mainly a marketing meeting.

One discussion examined PostScript Level 2.  One addition is the
ability to create forms that are cached in memory (or on disk.)  The
idea is that one will be able to call up a form that will have
already been imaged and thereby speed printer output.

Another discussion focused on the integration of PostScript and FAX
technology.  Adobe would like to see printers which have built in fax
send/receive capabilities.  Their idea is that with such a
printer/fax device one could have remote printing on any fax machine
in the world.  They have planned extensions to PostScript Level 1 & 2
to permit a user to print a file with a phone number and have the
printer fax the file to the phone number.

In many ways, this is an attractive idea.  To push it further, they
would have these PostScript printer/fax machines recognize when they
had connected with another PostScript printer/fax device and in those
cases send PostScript files.  This is also an attractive idea when
you consider a) the visual improvement PostScript can add to faxes
and b) the compression in data of sending the PostScript over the
scanned bits (Adobe claimed reduction of transmission times by
factors of 2 to 25.)  Adobe demonstrated this benefit by stating that
1/2 of all phone calls from Japan to the United States are made by
fax machines.  You can imagine the money saved by reducing the length
of these phone calls by a factor of two.

The Adobe representative also portrayed what seemed to him an
excellent idea.  A company (a manufacturer for example) might cache
their purchase order form on a supplier's printer/fax machine's disk
and then reduce their fax transmittal times to the order itself, with
no time spent transmitting the form.

Later on, I cornered the Adobe representative in a hallway and spoke
of my concerns that some manufacturer could play tricks by ordering
parts for a competitor and use a competitors purchase order form to
make it all seem very legitimate.

Well, I didn't know the half of it.  The representative admitted that
security issues were great and offered a better scenario:

Imagine thieves faxing a trojan horse into another printer/fax
machine.  The receiver would be looking at an innocuous message,
something like, "Hello World.", or "Joe's Pizza is now open", but his
printer/fax would contain a PostScript program that copies future
output to disk and late at night faxes that output back to the
thieve's machine.

It's good to know that Adobe realizes the potential problems before
producing the product and is trying to install features to prevent
the abuse.  Still, Adobe has many "unsophisticated" users and it will
be interesting to see how they teach these users that their
printer/fax machines can become a corporate spy.

Jerry Bakin.

But the computer person said it was OK!

Thu, 28 Feb 91 20:26:15 EST
That reminds me of an incident that happend to me a few Saturdays ago.  I
needed to pick up some 12-gauge electrical cable.  I browsed past the 14-gauge
coils, then picked up a 25' coil of 12-gauge.  The price was about twice what
the 14-gauge cost.  Odd, and unreasonable; I checked further.  The 25' coil of
12-gauge cost exactly the same as a 50' coil; that price in turn was slightly
more than the same length of 14-gauge.  Ah -- someone put the wrong sticker on
the 25' coil, I thought.  There was a clerk standing nearby; I pointed out the
error to him.  He consulted a handy printout.  ``Nope; it's priced correctly;
see?'' Sure enough, the printout showed that 25' and 50' of 12-gauge wire cost
the same thing.  I tried pointing out that that was unreasonable; he shrugged
and walked away.

Having a bit of time, I decided to tell the manager.  It took a bit of
explaining to get my point across; one of the two individuals I was speaking to
didn't understand anything I was saying.  After all, the computer had the price
as the sticker; what was the problem?  I finally made myself understood, but to
no avail -- store prices were set from the regional computer center a few towns
away, and nothing could be done until the office re-opened on Monday.  The
price was wrong, and absurd -- but there was no way for them to fix it.  (That
they didn't do anything else, such as pulling the erroneously- marked coils
from the shelf is another matter, of course.)
                                                    --Steve Bellovin

P.S.  The next time I was in, a few days later, the pricing had been corrected.

Automatic Patching

Larry Nathanson <>
Wed, 27 Feb 91 22:29:00 -0500
When I read the first half of the article on the Hi-Track Dynamic Microcode
Downloading, my thoughts turned immediately to America Online.

I can vouch for the fact that AOL is self patching- I've seen Macintosh and
Apple //e code come down the pike, into my computers.  Sometimes it's icons,
sometimes the inherent menu structure changes- sometimes new modules appear.  I
don't think there is any limit to what they can send over the lines- after all,
they have game modules available on an optional basis (for the //e anyhow)
which contain much code.

Nowadays, the patches are rather infrequent.  During beta testing they were
almost daily.  The risks of accepting executable code, straight off the line,
and executing it w/o giving the user a chance to virus check seems
nerveracking, and my first impulse was that it is a risk.  However, after some
thought I decided that it should be relatively safe.

There are 2 ways viral code could get through- an outside job, and an inside
job.  For an outside job, the hacker would have to figure out the communiction
code, (As a beta tester of the original Applelink Personal, let me tell you
that this is NOT easy to do.), AND dissassemle the entire communications
software- to find out where to patch.  Then our illustrious hacker would have
to establish a link to the user's pc.  To do this, #1) The user would have to
call the hacker's machine which would emulate a telenet node, or #2) the hacker
would have to take over one or more telenet nodes.  Neither is easy to
accomplish without either the user knowing, or telenet getting VERY upset
(i.e., litigious).

While anything is possible, I'm willing to bet that this is sufficiently
improbable that AO is safe to external hacks using the patch command to give me
a virus.  Remember that nothing is 100% safe.  Also- if they DID give me this
virus, then SAM should grab it as soon as it starts to go after another

As for inside jobs, well, I don't know.  One would hope that a disgruntled
employee couldn't do anything alone that the 'gruntled' employees wouldn't
stop.  I know that 'freedom of hacking' is kept rather tight around Quantum-
sometimes the people who are supposed to be doing things run into trouble.  My
feeling is that they are aware of the risk, and have safeguards to prevent such
a thing - it would be the end of a very promising online system, if such a
scandal was to occur.  And the same caveat- while nothing is 100% safe, a
runtime infection checker should catch anything while it's on the move.

(NOTE- I am not an employee of Quantum Computer Inc, makers of America
Online, and other nifty things.  I am a former beta-tester and online
guide, with no current formal affiliation, except for lots of friends.)

--Larry Nathanson

Risk from workstations with built-in microphones

"Steve Greenwald" <>
Fri, 1 Mar 91 12:46:49 -0500
A lot of new workstations and personal computers now come with a built-in
microphone with hardware to digitize the microphone input.  Example
applications are digital signal processing and voice-annotation of software for
documentation purposes.  Many of these workstations are designed to be used as
stations on local area networks (LANs).  Additionally, it is quite common in
some organizations to have workstations in the offices of individuals.

One risk of this technology seems clear: it is entirely possible for a
determined person to write software that will activate the microphone and
digitizer without the knowledge of the workstation user.  The digitized
acoustic data could then either be locally stored in the workstation (say, on a
hard disk) for later retrieval, or, if the workstation is attached to a
network, the data could even be sent to the eavesdropper's location.  If the
network is used, it would be quite possible (given the throughput of modern
LANs) to send digitized voice.  Using common techniques, digitized voice data
requires a data rate in the neighborhood of 56 kilobits per second, while most
LANs have data rates in the area of megabits per second.  Of course, this
method would require that the eavesdropper somehow acquire access to the
workstation (perhaps with a trojan horse, or even physical access).  Naturally,
this would allow someone remote in time and/or space to eavesdrop on the area
around the workstation.

Some possible solutions:

1) Eliminate the microphones when not absolutely required.

2) Have a switch (either manual or software controlled) to turn the
   microphone circuitry on or off.  A problem with this solution is
   that it requires the user to remember to turn the microphone off
   when it is not in use, and would not eliminate eavesdropping while
   the microphone was turned on during periods when the user was not
   using it.  Additionally, if the switch were software controlled,
   the eavesdropper's software could simply turn it on if it detected
   it as being turned off.

3) Have some sort of indicator (say, an LED) which would clearly show
   when the microphone circuitry was active.  The indicator should be
   under the control of hardware only, to prevent it being disabled
   by the software of the eavesdropper.

4) Have an automatic logging function which would record the time and
   duration of each use of the microphone circuitry.  A problem is
   that such a log would have to be frequently examined by the user,
   unless some sort of automated exception reporting were used.

5) Have some sort of sound-blocking cover which the user can put over
   the microphone when it is not being used.  A possible problem with
   this solution is that if the eavesdropper has physical access to
   workstation, it would be possible to replace the cover with a fake
   one which is not sound-blocking.  Therefore it would be desirable
   to have some sort of build-in facility which could test the operation
   of the cover.

6) Require some sort of user authentication whenever the microphone is
   to be used.  Even something as simple as a "dead man's switch" would
   work (although that could be annoying in practice).

Steve Greenwald, graduate student, Computer and Information Sciences
University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida

               [The microphone problem was previously discussed in the
               context of NeXT by E. Loren Buhle, Jr. in RISKS-10.65.  PGN]

Specs for special equipment

Jim Purtilo <purtilo@cs.UMD.EDU>
Wed, 27 Feb 91 00:54:53 -0500
I have just checked into the hotel wherein a large meeting of software folks is
held.  The meeting announcement stated "if you plan on bringing a PC for use in
the hotel room, then be sure to tell the hotel this when you make reservations.
They will have the special equipment for you to hook your modem to the hotel
phone system."  I did this when making reservations.

There are specs and then there are specs, of course.  At the desk, I asked
"do you have the equipment I asked for?" to which I received a cheery "of
course, Dr. Purtilo! We have your request entered right here in our computer."


I find my room is spacious, and quite special.  It is well suited for a
person who is environmentally disadvantaged.  The front desk's reservation
system, it seems, allows a flag for "special equipment" to be set, which
refers to a room with all furniture placed for easy wheel-chair access.
Mirrors, bath gear, toilets, etc, are all placed and oriented for someone
with much different patterns of mobility than I exhibit.

I have not quite decided whether this is a software design flaw (desired state
information not expressible in the system), user interface error, or just my
usual luck.

(I am, obviously, overcoming my own handicap in this room, namely, that a phone
cord is permanently fixed to the wall without nice modular jack for nethacking.
Screwdrivers, 'gator clips, and an attitude ... don't leave home without them!)


Re: worse-is-better for the 1990s (Newcomer, RISKS-11.16)

Tim Chambers <>
Tue, 26 Feb 91 16:03:20 mst
>From: "Joseph M. Newcomer" <>
>          There is a risk of accepting the barely adequate; you may have to
>live with it for a long time.

I think the author misses Dick Gabriel's point.  By the way he chooses his
words, he is lamenting the fact that the world suffers from living with
"barely adequate" implementations.  The issue seems is more one of standards
than of what is The Right Thing.

The company I work for has a long-standing tradition of trying to Do the Right
Thing with technologies in our products.  A funny thing happened when we
ventured into larger and larger markets -- the slogan "standard is better than
better" began to catch on with engineers battling with competitors for shares
of billion-dollar markets.  We began to seek out standards and promote them in
our products.

I'd like to know if examples exist of cases where Right Thing technology *has
been* compatible with mass markets.  I can think of plenty of counter-examples:
VHS versus Beta; multi-process, high-cost-of-entry computers (UNIX workstations)
 versus single-process, low-common-denominator computers (PC); and technologies
used in television and power transmission.  In all cases, the poorer candidate
for being the Right Thing has more economic clout (i.e. it thrives in a larger
market than Right Thing alternatives).  (Perhaps FM radio is closer to the Right
Thing than AM -- I welcome comments from an expert of what an ideal radio
broadcast system would be so AM and FM could be compared to it.)

I don't see this as much of a lesson at all.  It's the natural order of things
in a competitive world.

Re: worse-is-better for the 1990s (Newcomer, RISKS-11.16)

Mark McWiggins <mark@intek01.UUCP>
Wed, 27 Feb 91 18:34:43 GMT
"Joseph M. Newcomer" <> writes:
> ...  There is a risk of accepting the barely adequate; you may have to
>live with it for a long time.

Hear, hear.  Admiral Grace Hopper was quoted as saying "Well, it's not
really what we want, but we'll fix it in the next release" on the
occasion of the release of the original COBOL.

Mark McWiggins, Integration Technologies, Inc. (Intek), 1400 112th Ave SE #202,
Bellevue WA 98004           +1 206 455 9935

Re: worse-is-better for the 1990s (Gitomer, RISKS-11.17)

Flint Pellett <>
27 Feb 91 21:48:09 GMT
>Perhaps what we are seeing is Gresham's Law as applied to computers: [...]
>Now if I could only figure out how to hoard an operating system or high-level
>language :-)

That's easy: you overprice it.  When you can get BASIC for free but have to
pay $100 for a C compiler, you end up with things that should have been in
C written in BASIC.  When it costs $400 for a bare-bones UNIX vs. $100 for
DOS, the lesser system pushes out the greater one quite often.

Flint Pellett, Global Information Systems Technology, Inc., 1800 Woodfield Dr.,
Savoy, IL 61874 (217) 352-1165 uunet!gistdev!flint

Re: worse-is-better for the 1990s (Gitomer, RISKS-11.17)

Wed, 27 Feb 91 10:53:41 -0500
If you're a hardware manufacturer, you can hoard your software by just not
letting it run on anybody else's hardware!  This is one reason that UNIX drove
out better, or at least better-adapted, operating systems: they couldn't run on
anything except their own vendor's hardware, and the vendor wasn't interested in
changing that situation since the greater intrinsic value was a competitive
advantage in selling hardware.

If you're not a hardware manufacturer, you can still accidentally "hoard" an OS
or high-level language by specializing it to a particular architecture so that
you can't easily move it onto newer hardware.  Multics and ITS are examples.  In
this case the problem is that operating systems and languages of greater
intrinsic value usually end up requiring hardware of greater intrinsic value or
specialization in order to do their job.  Multics had protection rings and true
dynamic linking, with specialized hardware to make them fast; UNIX has neither,
so it can run on machines without the extra hardware.

Fortunately, Gresham's Law need not apply if the creator of the software isn't
interested in hoarding it.  GNU Emacs and gcc are good counterexamples.

    Dan Franklin

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